. no growth. >> of the freedom continuous on this >>> so will conservatives pick paul ryan to win straw poll today? we have to wait and see. we already know they are praising the new budget plan with a lot less spending in it than the president's budget plan. $4.6 trillion less over ten years. enough to balance the budget by 2023. some at forbes say it doesn't cut nearly enough. welcome to forbes on fox. let's look at the flipside with elizabeth mcdonald. john, rick, mike and mark. and john, democrats pick on the ryan plan and say it cuts too much. you say it doesn't cut nearly enough. that is the flipside. explain. >> a balanced budget is not small government. under the plan government spending will increase the next ten years when we get to a balanced budget in 2023. it will be $4.1 trillion. 3.4% annual increases in spending versus 5% under the democrats plan. rean thinks this is small government. he is playing bad politics because his base put him in there to it reduce the burden of government and this will greatly expand it. >> mark, john has a point. the ryan budget averages out to $4.